Like most News Sites they try to influence by interjecting their OPINON . JUST REPORT THE NEWS stop trying to make and influence it.

They posted a link to the poll. You can read it yourself.

ohhh shut up already. What 2 people do in their life has no effect on you, get over yourself and stop worrying so much about what other people do.

Then why is the divorce rate in Massachusetts lower than the divorce rate here in PA?

How does it demean real marriage?

I think us straight folks have demeaned marriage quite a bit already. How in the hell does a gay couple affect _your_ marriage. Unless two guys are blowing each other on your kitchen table or something, it should be a non-issue in your life.

I cannot possibly imagine why YOU think YOU should have a say in another person's private life. Can I please have a say in what YOU cannot do? I didn't think so ... If you do not want to be in a same sex marriage.... Well then.... Don't be.

At this point the political wins for gay equality are becoming exponential, and your opinion irrelevant. In other words - get over it.

Wrong there is affect on us when they slam this gay shit down our throats, our kids throats and force feeding it to us like we have to like it. I don't give 2 flying f**ks, You want to be gay that's your damn problem and it is a problem which they will find out 1 way or another.... BUT STOP shoving it in my face!!!! and be nice would you!!

That's just it Mary we're all involved, they're making us all involved, us Straight people are the ones being bent over....

Actually, John, it does affect others. The first effect is on the economy. Married couples often enjoy tax benefits. It's possible that tax receipts to the state would decrease. Second, it could affect employment. Employers would probably be forced to recognize these marriages under any state civil rights laws, and therefore need to provide health care benefits to the spouses. Many private business owners may be forced to accept same-sex couples through any promotions they offer, and their response to this could be disruptive. We have to take these issues into account, and be prepared to accept what happens. No matter how you feel about it, there will be a cascade of changes.

@Stephen- really, that's the logic you're gonna try to use to defend discrimination? it could cost people money, they'll have to recognize it as a real marriage, they may have to promote them...wow. that's basically some of the same crap that was used to keep blacks slaves and to deny women equal rights. "oh, but they might want to get a job, or an education or vote even. think what the consequences of that might be."

Because the homosexual agenda will stop at nothing to try to "normalize" and have absolute approval of their behavior in every facet of life...starting with grammar school children. I want to teach my kid what is morally correct and not have some agenda foisted on my kid at school. And before you say anything, I know I have the choice to privately educate my child, and I do. However, for those who cannot afford that option, I speak for them.

@Sassy - Yeah what awful people, you are right we shouldn't teach tolerance or acceptance especially in grade school.

Sorry, "sassy", but my kids also have the right to not have your religiously biased "moral agenda" pushed down their throats either. So who the hell is to decide what "morals" our kids should be taught? You? Your preacher? We still have seperation of church and state in this country. Your morals should be taught at home. School is for learnin', not building right winter christian clones.

Sorry, Harry, but who made you judge of what is moral or not? What should be taught in school? Upon what basis do you decide "gay is ok"?

Sorry, I stand by what I say. I think grammar school is way too young to have anything involving sexuality or orientation. And don't try to use a straw man by thinking I am not into teaching tolerance. Teach the Golden Rule and stop at that...period. And last I heard, these is no talk of religion allowed in schools in my district,

Thank you Sassy!!!! You are very much correct!!!

It goes deeper then just tolerance. I'm tolerate, I teach my kids tolerance, BUT ENOUGH IS ENOUGH... They have an agenda, time to wake up my friend!!!

Leigh
I care because this will allow for other malicious things to go on and you and I both know that is the truth. The reason I care is because of the fact that the homosexual life style has it own problems and we know that. It is not going to do something that will improve PA.

To be fair, we aren't teaching religious tolerance in school. The public schools are institutions of the local, state, and federal governments. If sexual orientation is going to become an official part of the curriculum, the "school prayer" and creationist agendas are going to become more concrete.

St. Gabes, thank you for the nice compliment. I truly cannot understand how SSM apologists call others haters without seeing the vile and hate they spew to us. I mean, do they not see the disconnect?

StGabes, please educate us. What is "their" agenda? To make you gay? I'm guessing that ship has sailed....nice, big, pink, glittery sails.

Polling is a science. It's used to sample the total population in a way that gives us a picture of how the whole group feels. I'll bet you spent 2012 denying all the polls that showed Obama winning the election too. How did that work out?

Since when does a public opinion poll, whether accurate or not, determine right and wrong?

Adam, have you ever heard of the phrase "lies, damn, lies and statistics?" That "science" can be spun, corrupted for anyone's gain." And I am friends with a lot of doctorate level statisticians who agree wholeheartedly.

To be fair, a dog is not a legal person. if you want a stronger argument, consider close relatives or friends marrying for just the legal benefits.

Porn? According to a very recent study by Indiana University, the reason homosexual marriage is gradually being accepted is the general public's fascination and enjoyment of pornography. The idea is our attitudes develop from the media we consume. Consume pornography, and you too will approve of homosexual marriage.

Why do you assume someone is full of hate because they believe homosexuality is a sin? The act is a sin, but we still have love for the person. You obviously don't understand Christianity at all. Adoration is a sin, but we don't hate the girl making that decision. I heard a priest say that homosexuals are called to the same life as priests...celibate. I thought that was a good analogy. Latinopa, do you also believe in Polygamy?

Obviously I meant abortion. My iPad swapped words on me!

Did you ever stop to think that the most loving, charitable thing one person can do for another is to not affirm somebody in his/her sin? If you disagree with this, that is OK. But do not call that behavior hateful. It is anything but.

It seems all the people who are against gay marriage view homosexuality as a sin. The only support for their position which they cite is the Christian Bible. But the Bible has no scientific standing nor is it accepted as the literal word of God by many Americans (see recent Pew poll). It is unacceptable to frame public policy on a religious position. Saudi Arabia is an excellent example of where that leads.

@Sassy "Did you ever stop to think that the most loving, charitable thing one person can do for another is to not affirm somebody in his/her sin?" Translation - because I don't approve of what you are doing and I view it as incorrect I am going to tell you how wrong you are and that YOU should conform to the way I see things. Super loving, SPREAD THE LOVE SASSY YOU ARE DOING GODS WORK.

Let's all share in a bible verse: Ezekiel 23:20 "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."

I remember when grandma would quote this to me right after telling me to love thy neighbor as thyself"

Listen, as I tell everyone else, I get one shot to get to Heaven, and I am going to use the best knowledge/guidance I can to get there. I think 2000 years of inspired wisdom says something powerful.

I am nor claiming to be a scripture scholar, so I will not go head-to-head with quotes. I have 2 SSA family members: one lives chastely and the other does not. So, don't pretend to know my sentiments.

Could you be more hypocritical than pointing out that your forefathers came for religious freedom, yet you want to silence religious opinions? I was astounded to hear two totally contradictory sentences right next to each other.

Pat, your reasoning is a fallacious generalization of religion. Just because Muslims may be hostile to homosexuality (I assume that is the intent of the Saudi Arabia reference) does not mean Christians must be. The Bible is actually quite a different book from the Qur'an. Also, expecting the Bible to have some "scientific" standing is as much of a red herring as expecting all of law to have a scientific standing. For what it's worth, archaeology has actually done much to confirm the accuracy and reliability of the text itself, but morality is not something that can be proven by science. A people choose how they will be governed, and if some choose to rest on the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, or from within, that is how that people will be.

Stephen, whose religious opinion am I trying to silence? Last I knew I was expressing an opinion and not wanting mine to be silenced through intimidating speech. However, I am seen as the enemy and called a hater, bigot, etc. If that isn't an attempt to silence me, I don't know what is.

Put your money where your mouth is - start adopting ALL the teachings of Leviticus in your daily life.

Agreed +1 to Adam

And you can't be a true American without believing that your stupid stone aged beliefs have absolutely NO PLACE in our governmental policy.

FWIW, according to Acts the Gentiles largely do not need to follow the Levitican law.

Awesome, the argument is everything that you just read in the first part of the book, yeah disregard that, not important, just FYI, but follow this second part, for reals, this is the legit part. Unless it doesn't suit the argument then we will reference the first part. But again depends on the nature of what we need. So we'll just use whatever part suits us whenever. Deal with it.

I'm a Christian pastor, and I can come up with many reasons why gay marriage is ok. I've spent years in theological training and not one argument against gay people and their marriage has convinced me.

1. Gay people are asking for the state to marry them, not your church. It is important to keep a separation of church and state - that is how we protect our churches. (Remember: Jesus was killed by the state!)
2. Homosexuality is not a sin. People are born gay. Biology has emphatically stated that homosexuality is a reality. Even though they can't pinpoint the precise reason (because there are multiple factors), mainstream scientists are clear that its a biological reality in both humans and animals. Therfore, if God created humans, he also created homosexuality.
(Leviticus was written at a time when people did not understand this. Human understanding of sex and reproduction has changed.)
3. If people can't change the fact that theyre gay, then hate speech that causes children to commit suicide and adults to kill/slander others is a far worse sin. It must really be hellish to hate someone else so much, and for no reason. We should all wonder: why is being gay a sin, other than a misguided reading of the bible?
3. Research as shown that gay parents make just as capable parents. Gay people are more likely to adopt children who are otherwised overlooked (developmental disorders, multi-racial children, etc.) and they have to work hard to have a child.

@James Lavoy - It would be beneficial to post the Church you pastor, especially for the Patch audience that agrees to same sex marriage.

You can't seriously be making the argument that marriage has a "public" purpose and the purpose of marriage is to "successfully raise children to adulthood." The purpose of marriage is to share your life with someone, not strictly for procreation. It is a pledge to someone that you care about them and want them to share everything with you for as long as you live. To say that the public should be invited into my marriage is ludicrous. Marriage is simultaneously the most selfish and the most giving act. By the way the point that you are also making is that if a couple doesn't have children they therefore have an unsuccessful public marriage, I guess all those people that don't have ability to conceive are just screwed right? Way to go, way to work that one out in your head before you speak.

DJ, the historical context of marriage was to protect the property rights of children, the POTENTIAL offspring of the relationship. Some trace it to the early Roman empire. Tax benefits, and other financial considerations came much later, but marriage was originally, and through the ages, about defining the rights & protection of kids.

Well you didn't say POTENTIAL did you? You were very specific about it.

Marriage is about defining the rights of kids? I don't feel like I should continue this line with you as it is completely devoid of logic.

John, you are right on. Our world has been overtaken with sentimentalism, and we are seeing the effects of it loud and clear.

I don't think you are using the word sentimentalism in the right context as such your statement is confusing.

DJ, I think I am using it fine, TYVM. This country has no moral compass. Rather we function more on the statements: the common good--what it good for me should be common. Or we better not say or do something that will hurt someone's feelings, so we better make a policy that will not step on any toes. Sentimentalism defined: An upbeat over emphasis on the inherent goodness of mankind that judges what is good or evil according to how well it accords with our feelings, or the feelings of people we want to impress.

See, we give women rights and they start to get all lippy and uppity. Should have stayed how it did years before they had rights and we wouldn't have started down this path of social justice.

Timothy 2:12 Sassy Timothy 2:12

DJ, our family fully assents to Timothy. But thanks for the reminder. Wow! And you dare to call me intolerant. What's the saying about ignoring the plank in your eye when seeing the mote of a another's? BTW, why do you assume I am a woman? We have a joint account in this household. ;-)

Can someone explain exactly what a gay couple is currently not able to do that a married couple can? I have been asking for a long time, and nobody can tell me.

@Tim Lewis- there are a multitude of benefits that same sex couples do not enjoy due to the limitations on marriage; recognition of their union in all 50 states, shared income and taxing, death benefits, shared health benefits, adoption...those are just a few. just do a short search on google and you'll find a litany of other rights/benefits that heterosexual couples enjoy that are denied to same sex couples. heck, it's even rumored in some states that it's still legal to fire someone if they are found out to be "gay". that's the difference. heterosexuals don't have to worry about discrimination regarding their sexual orientation. homosexuals do. it's that simple.

Those things come at a price. They will have a lasting impact on economics, and society as a whole. We have to accept this instead of attacking the opponents of same-sex marriage as "stone age" or "bigots" for not making this huge leap.

@Stephen- funny, the same thing has been said about equality for blacks and women. we call people who say things like that "bigots", don't we?

Can't tell if you are serious about this or not but whatevs.
Leviticus 18:22 says:
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
-------
Leviticus 11:9-12 says:
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcasses in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

So eating crab and lobster is the same as gay sex. Bet a lot of Christians didn't know they were going to hell right alongside all the same sex couples. But hey crabs are tasty right?

Read Acts, DJ.

I've read the whole bible, along with the book of mormon, the quaran, and all the Buddhist teachings. Any particular passage you are referencing or just acts in general because....done.

The media, taking a cue from Planned Parenthood, refused to use Pro-Life, and labels them 'anti-choice.' You know, "control the language, control the debate."

Well it is "anti-choice". You are attempting to remove one of the options available. How is that not removing choice?

Amen, Kim.

People do not become 'bad/hateful' because of their beliefs. They become so when they insist others who do not share those beliefs must nonetheless abide by them.

Pat - I believe that it is wrong to break in and steal someone's property. Is that something I should insist others abide by? What if my neighbor has the opposite belief? By what measure do you "insist" others abide by your beliefs? What makes stealing wrong? General consensus? Society? Each individual? "The Law"? Upon what basis?

@Tim Lewis- there is no comparison between what two consenting adult chose to do as a lifestyle, and someone coming into your house and taking your things. no one is taking anything from you when they discuss same sex marriage rights. you, on the other hand, are when you deny others the same liberties and freedoms you enjoy based on your religious beliefs.

Saying that opposing gay marriage is "removing an option" is like reducing the annual tax increase from 3% to 1% and claiming it's a tax cut.

There are billions of red herrings that can't ride a bicycle.

I'll share it with the flying spaghetti monster.

Ad hominems are a sign of weakness.

Please discredit my religion: http://www.venganza.org/

Pastafarianism is as real as Christianity.

The U.S. was founded on - imperfectly - Judeo-Christian values, which shaped and help evolve our laws. Marriage evolved from non-Christian and Christian societies, and has always been about men, women, and children. It's a value-system, not specific religious beliefs, that has defined marriage, and bigotry has nothing to do with it. Nice try though.

The left forgets this when they take gun rights away from law-abiding people, silence religious speech, and force people to buy health insurance.

Yes, in some societies today, men are free to abuse their wives and children. I don't dispute that, but that is another discussion.

You missed the pictures of the brewery?

@JohnQPublic.....exactly....the real god will be waiting for you laughing in your face.....too bad you wasted your time on earth

Dude, you are offended by beer? Sorry.

We something that brought everyone together and made them feel good but they shut down the East-West Wellness Center.

Writers may consider their articles successful based on the number of comments.

That 4% is politically connected, mostly well educated and - the important part - contribute vast sums beyond their numbers to politicians. That, and the media has no love for morality, so misses no opportunity to knock it down.

Where did you get this fact? Faux News.Almost 10% of the US population discribes themselves as LGBT. You could have googled it, before posting inaccuracies.

Patrick....Here is one link (of many links) that state a 3.4% rate of gays in America. Maybe you should do the homework instead of providing a demeaning reply regarding a news outlet that has nothing to do with this conversation. Here's the link, let me know if you want more: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/10/19/how_many_americans_are_gay_or_lesbian_gallup_survey_says_3_4_percent.html

And what's your belief now that you know the facts?

Gov has no business giving out marriage certs in first place, only started in 1920s right after income tax began and our mysterious Fed Reserve in 1913. Then people could be recognized by their religious leaders or a justice of the peace. Think positive and be nice to everyone.

Bigotry has nothing to do with this argument, but again, nice try. Control the language, control the debate.

The left never proposes adding new amendments to the constitution though, do they? Instead, they use the deceitful means through the executive and the courts, because a constitutional amendment is impossible to pass without a large consensus.

You don't NEED to ammend the Constitution because there is no law/language about marriage in the Constitution.

Only one real big problem and it effects on all of us, the unConstitutional formation of the Fed Reserve in 1913 and what it has done to our economy and how it controls our lives, education. I support gay marriage too, because they are free people too, even if some religions are in opposition. But we cannot allow those who support gay marriage to be intolerant of religions who do not support that lifestyle, that is what the rad left is really aiming at imho.

LOOK OUT!!!!! GAY PEOPLE!!!!!! RUN!!!!!!!!! WE CAN'T FORM THOUGHTS ON OUR OWN AND WE ARE GOING TO SUCCUMB TO WHATEVER WE ARE TOLD!!!!! AAAAAAHHHHHH THEY JUST INFECTED ME WITH THEIR GAYNESS!!!! NOW I LOVE DUDES!!!

You are ridiculous.

And is that wrong? In the past the term negro was acceptable. Then colored. We get rid of old language as our culture evolves. There's nothing wrong with teaching kids about gender/sexuality, as that is much different than sex.

Red herrings are red.

using Jesus's name to defend bigotry is still bigotry.

When it's allowed?

i kinda like that rule that says women must leave the city untiol they are clean.....maybe jesus had a point

Read Acts.

Specifically?

Kimmy...i'm not preaching acceptance...im preaching ignorance...you know, that jesus is god's little boy, and moses made the red sea part...
SIncerely,
1.2billion muslins

Kim, you are not alone. But keep the faith. Our rewards are not of this earth.

Your in the lead, keep making John QJackass look like a fool!

There's a difference between not supporting their lifestyle and preventing them from being able to marry. THAT is the problem that those of us in "our cause" have with "you people." If you want to ignore them, fine. If you want them to do what they want in their bedroom fine. How does allowing them to marry affect you? And why are you against it?

Wow...scary! Do you have anger issues? You preach live and let live...ironic!

Your nonsense adds nothing to this discussion. Being as heterosexual relationships have an obvious biological purpose, it's likewise not ordinary to be offended by them.

Stephen: If heterosexual relationships have a biological purpose, and my wife & I decided not to have children, does that invalidate our marriage? Is it offensive?

Latinopa, even if you don't want them, I will pray for you. I worry anger issues are deeper than just your guff with traditional marriage. Everyone has crosses to bear, and it stinks when we live in a world that is centered on something other than what we like. In my case, I remember when we found out we were infertile. The whole world seemed filled with babies and families. We wanted to make the whole Mother's Day and Father's Day things go away. Then when we lost a child to stillbirth, the hurt ame again. Then we had a child only to find out he had autism. I wanted all the commercials and ads depicting neurotypical children to go away. However, removing those things would not take away the crosses or the hurts. It would just lump them in some other category.

I don't force my religion on anybody else. Yes, I have an opinion and I hold to it. However, as a mature adult, I expect people will different opinions to be respectful. I think people can agree to disagree without all the hateful language used on both sides. I truly feel for you.

yes, kimmy, I am....you are one ignorant believer of devils and ghosts..

Love,
Japan

Kim, please take the moral high ground and don't name call. It does nothing but make us look bad too. I understand your frustration, but we should always try to be charitable.

GOOD THING YOU WON'T REPRODUCE HAHA

Gay Agenda is decided in the meetings right after the Jewish Lobby, usually on the first Tuesday of the month. You can stick around afterwards for the "new world order" committee meetings where all decide how to continue our plans for world domination...

Harry, thanks! I was trying to get in on both of those meetings. I heard they have pie.

@Kim- i could be wrong, but that sorta talk doesn't sound very Christian.

We'll also add you to that list

well if you don't like it here you can always go back to where you came from

There isn't one organization called "the Christian church". There are hundreds of different denominations with slightly differing beliefs. There are also thousands of homosexual advocacy organizations.

Interestingly God has killed in excess of 2 million people in the bible. Satan only killed 10. Which makes God kind of a dick.

Please read Acts.

Specifically?

According to the bible YES! You can marry a few different women! There are numerous instances throughout the bible where this is specifically stated.

And your car is an inanimate object without free cognitive human will. Stop being a numb nut.

Oh slavery! Don't forget slavery. That existed for more than a millennium.

Hey, Lat - who made you Judge? Hypocrisy exhibit A

Since when do ballots determine right and wrong?

Excellent Idea. But hollywood gets 100 votes to our one.

So sad that in 2013 we have lost the ability to make moral distinctions. An actively gay lifestyle was, is, and will always be a moral issue.

Ironic statements by a judgmental person.

Stephen - are you Judging me? How ironic!

Tim Lewis, please leave me a detailed description of your personal life: who you love, what happens in your bedroom and such. Maybe I will find your morals lacking

Perhaps, Sunni. If I was sleeping with someone other than my wife, living with someone I was not married to, or married to several people, then you certainly should make judgments based on my moral character. You would be deficient if you didn't.

Tim you completely missed the point I was making. Who cares who you sleep with, who cares what goes on in your bedroom, who cares who you love. Since you did not answer my questions, I take it you thought I was intruding into your personal life.
Do you understand my point now? People need to stop deciding what is right or wrong between 2 consenting adults. Actually, I don't even care if it is more than 2 adults, the important words to notice are ADULT and CONSENTING. Oh and by the way I wouldn't judge your life. I don't walk in your shoes, so how am I to know how you feel or why you do what you do

yeah, cuz that's the only reason people choose to get married. (rolls eyes).

I still don't know what benefits married people enjoy that a gay couple cannot. Please explain.

This is not about money, but "acceptance."

@Tim- yeah. you know acceptance. like letting blacks sit in the back of the bus. they have their own water fountains, what's the big deal?

Amend, that is just dumb. Can you answer my question? what can married people do that gay people cannot? This isn't about rights. This is about gay people demanding that everyone recognize their lifestyle choice as a valid one - which will never happen.

@Tim- this was my earlier answer to your question..."there are a multitude of benefits that same sex couples do not enjoy due to the limitations on marriage; recognition of their union in all 50 states, shared income and taxing, death benefits, shared health benefits, adoption...those are just a few. just do a short search on google and you'll find a litany of other rights/benefits that heterosexual couples enjoy that are denied to same sex couples. heck, it's even rumored in some states that it's still legal to fire someone if they are found out to be "gay". that's the difference. heterosexuals don't have to worry about discrimination regarding their sexual orientation. homosexuals do. it's that simple."

and how was my response any dumber than then your attempts to frame what "acceptance" is? blacks wanting equality wasn't seen as valid either. don't get upset with me because your flavor of bigotry taste the same...and never is a long time. civil rights is about equality. this is an issue of rights. every American's rights are valid, not just the Americans you deem worthy.

I think you are mistaken in most of what you say. Gays have been enjoying all of those rights for a long time - adoption since the early 80s. I agree about being fired - but in almost any state any person can be fired for any reason, including if the boss doesn't like your wife.

There is no moral dimension to color. There is a moral dimension to sexuality. I have, and always will, make judgments on a person's character by his or her choices.

I don't know who you are talking to, but if you were born after 1973, I was here first. You get out.

Piss off. You don't want to comment go away and stop reading.

And your response, Mr. Hypocritical, was better how? Hater!

Do you need me to call the Waaaahmbulance for you?

Wow......just......wow.

It is a common genetic "disorder" (and I am not saying disorder to be demeaning) much like any other genetic disorder or mutation. Baldness, cystic fibrosis, muscular dystrophy, alzheimer's, and color blindness are all genetic disorders or mutations. Should we treat any of these people differently for their disorder? Why treat gays differently?

You never said you were against gay marriage? Here's a quote from you earlier in this thread, in which I've put a specific relevant part in CAPS:

Kim said:
"You equal marriage people crack me up! It's never enough to ignore you. You are jamming yourselves in our faces! You feel that if we don't completely accept and support you, we are bigots. Get over yourselves. Do whatever you want in your bedroom and keep me and my kids out of it! STOP TRYING TO GET US TO ACCEPT AND SUPPORT YOUR DECISION. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.. Worry about yourself. If you are ok with your lifestyle, so be it."

Sounds to me like you're against gay marriage.

And Kim you don't help your cause either, because you are just as nasty and ignorant as "those" gay people

You have to understand, you cannot be against homosexuality but for gay marriage. Even if you don't believe in homosexuality (which cracks me up -- it's not something to "believe in" like Santa Claus) but don't hate homosexuals, you are still clearly against the idea of gay marriage. Gays are not asking for anything that the rest of us do not have. The sooner we understand that, the better.

@Kim- so you'll vote in favor of same sex marriage then, right?...since you're all accepting and loving and not against it.

Just pointing out that Satan really wasn't that bad of a dude. He didn't murder 1/100th of the people God did.

Kim- i can appreciate your calls for civility. tolerance should teach us to listen to both sides, but we should never tolerate inequality. i dig Jesus. he taught me to love everyone without condition and treat them as i would want to be treated. that is why i defend the rights of others. i can admit that i am sometimes a bit caustic in that defense.

Frank, I tend to be naive in this regard I guess, do you mean that frat guys have sex with their frat brothers if given enough grain alcohol? You learn something new every day!

No they didnt.

Charlie - think a little harder about what you're saying and realize that it is wrong. No you can't turn gay and it isn't a choice. That being said, it is not going to "go away" in 20 years.

Kim, I agree that there are women out there who have had it with men and turn to women. And I bet there are men who turn up the "flamboyant" just like there are men who turn up the "testosterone" in certain situations.

The problem I have with this forum and most of the views on here is that people want to shame others for who they are born to be. Yes, there are exceptions. But so many young people are faced with a reality that is ridiculed, shunned and labeled "abnormal" and no, it is not their choice. Gay and lesbian youth make up a large percentage of teenage runaways and homeless. They can live in fear simply because of who they are and to me this is really unacceptable and sad.

Amend, I try to learn about things I don't know about. I try to get informed. I sited Oprah as an example. Most of the line here is that we are born this way, it's not a choice. That is what I was discussing it. Sorry you found that too difficult to follow! Why I you always feel the need to dissect other people's posts. I even stated that it wasn't the norm. Go friggin school someone else. You piss me off when you're such an arrogant jerk! I know...I know...that's not Christian. I don't care, I already said I was a sinner!

Double Ignorant, Your post REALLY helps move the discussion along!

If a homosexual gene is found, this argument is moot. Planned Parenthood will cure homosexuality. That goes for pedophilia, or any other aberration; if the gene is found, the problem will be solved. The only homosexuals born will be to those nasty Christians, and they are a vanishing group.

Thanks for the input Hitler.

Epigenetics - learn something.

@DJ He can't be Hitler, Hitler embraced Homosexuals, Just like all commies did, they didn't like the flamboyant gays....

I don't think that finding a gene for something makes it acceptable. I'm just pointing out that making an argument by nature is dangerous. Many things in nature are nasty and unacceptable in human society. Animals murder, rape, and steal. A few are monogamous, most are polygamous. Some of these are acceptable to some people. You don't want to use "finding a gene" as support for a behavior, as your argument will be problematic if a gene for sociopaths was found. You don't want to be lumped in that way.

@ Stephen... what it does is prove once and for all that it is a biological condition as natural as having 2 arms and 2 legs. To compare animal actions that are the result of instincts through millions of years of evolution to that of an educated human is comparing apples to oranges. There is no correlation there except that genes make us who we are and affect our actions. I don't consider a lion killing and eating a gazelle murder... Sociopath I believe is more chemical imbalance in the brain. This could be caused by a gene. If that was found and in the future we develop a way to change it we could end the plague of "sociopaths" but then we are playing god which is whole other conversation and something that JQP alluded to in his post. Then the question becomes which issues do we fix and which do we let go?

You sound like a good woman Judy, love is love who cares who marries who.

There are reasons why thing like this are not put on ballots. Slavery, suffrage, etc.

why should it be left for anyone's input besides those getting married. I still have not heard one argument on how same sex marriage has any affect on anyone else... And why is it anyone elses business?

Go scratch yourself!

My dear, obscene friend, see my note below. We are what we consume, and you've obviously consumed too much.

WTF? have another drink

that explains why my dog got raped..to many heterosexuals watching beastuality porn

Marriage is an institution, love is an emotion. Equating love with marriage is hyperbole.

Kudos Amanda!! I agree with you and I too am a married straight woman.

No. Yes, in some states. You should be able to, as long as all the parties are willing and of legal age to consent.
As long as the parties are willing to engage, and are of legal age to do so, there should be no restrictions. There is no victim here.

So homosexuality = pedophilia = incest = polygamy.

Awesome Tim. Way to wow us with your genius. Think you left necrophilia off of your list.

DJ, I never said they were all equal, I was merely illustrating that there are lines, we just differ on where to draw it.

Delco - are you really suggesting that anything goes?

Think about this Tim..We were married off as soon as we got our period because we were of age. Society changed that rule, thank goodness! But you can marry your cousin as long as they are your second cousin. I would prefer a gay marriage over two cousins that is just freaky lol

40 year old marrying a 10 year old is completely different based on the age of the child, their innocence and not even out of school. There are laws that are there to protect children. If this was sharia law, then yes they could... IE morality changes and is subjective based on society... who is the ultimate judge? In a truely free society cousins should be able to marry and polygamy should be allowed as well as long as all parties that enter into the agreement want it that way. It should be their choice, not anyone else. Who are you to judge the love between cousins or those in multiple relationships? just because it goes against how you were brought up, it doesn't mean that you have to right to say it can't happen.

A sign that someone has lost an argument is when he uses a personal attack on his opponent.

Ego, upon what do you base your belief that children should be protected? Upon what do you base your belief that "choice" is the ultimate moral imperative? Upon what do you base your concept of what is a "right"? I base mine on the idea that there is a standard of unyielding moral truth. The same one that the founding fathers of our country based their ideas on, that there are inherent rights and standards granted by God.

Hey Tim, since you claim to live your life according to God and Jesus (although, it's obvious to anyone who picks up a Bible that you're a pawn of satan and know nothing of Jesus Christ), I'd like you to find me a single verse in any of the Gospels where Jesus talks about homosexuality.

Then, I'd like you to explain why you defend rich republicans, considering Jesus said that it is impossible for a rich man to go heaven, gave blessings to the poor and woe to the rich, and even his own mother's song in Luke makes it clear that we will know Christ for what he is when the poor are sent away filled, and the rich are sent away empty?

Of course, expecting a satanic America worshipper like you to actually pick up your Bible and live accordingly is a bit much. Let's be clear, you are not a Christian. You are an American nationalist who will always put your political ideology above the callings of the Gospel.

Tim your comment of...
Ego, upon what do you base your belief that children should be protected? Upon what do you base your belief that "choice" is the ultimate moral imperative? Upon what do you base your concept of what is a "right"? I base mine on the idea that there is a standard of unyielding moral truth. The same one that the founding fathers of our country based their ideas on, that there are inherent rights and standards granted by God.

Please go back and reread the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution. This amazing country we live in was founded on the freedom of religion because our forefathers were escaping religious persecution

@ Tim- I am not sure I understand your question. Where do I get the belief that children should be protected? Well, I have 2 children and as their father I love them more than anything and do whatever I can to protect them. Unfortunately, not all parents or fathers feel the same way I do. As far as choice and morality go... upbringing, education, family, society in general provide information which allows an individual to decide for themselves to be what is moral and not. What is right and wrong per society changes over time and even depends which society you belong to. Why do you think your morality is the truth vs the talibans? I am sure they would argue different. Which is the whole reason I do not buy into organized religion although born and raised catholic and even going to catholic high school. Unfortunately I see more intolerance and hate spewing from those that claim to be religious because of what they believe to be moral truths than anywhere else. I do believe in God and that all people have inherent rights but for some reason that does not apply to homosexuals? You cannot pick and choose to suit your needs it should cover everyone, not just those that agree with what you deem as moral truth.

Sorry, truth does not evolve. "Society" decided slavery was ok long ago. Does that make it "right" for that time? Moral and ethical? NO! It is wrong because it is wrong, always was, always will be. You don't get to pick and choose what is right or wrong.

No, no it wasn't.

You are so funny...actually I am 5'2" and 105 lbs. lol! In regard to me being a Blowhard...you will never know ..... Asshole!

I guess anyone who does not agree with you is an idiot? Try expanding your own mind before you criticize others.

No, Tim, everyone who disagrees with us isn't an idiot. You, however, are. Although, it's not surprising that God would give a satanic heretic like you less than average intelligence.

Stop protesting in front of Mormon temples, then.

Looks like I hit a nerve! Lol! I am guessing you're probably @ 2inches!

Two inches from the ground.deal with it.

This is if we assume that marriage is a religious institution, which de jure it is not as counties issue marriage licenses in PA. BTW, this discussion is about legalizing marriage in PA; the fact that Congress has no jurisdiction is off topic.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

That is the first amendment of our Constitution, which applies to all federal state and local governments in the US.

I never said said that marriage was a religious institution, my husband and I were married by a judge. I stated that all arguments against same sex marriage are religious in nature which are not a lawful reason due to the separation of church and state in the Constitution.

As you can see I was still on topic.

I hope the righteous justice God wrecks on your blasphemous, satanic ideology is blessing you with a homosexual son.

I am not afraid of that. I would still love him just the same. That does not make the behavior any more or less wrong.

Wow, I didn't see that before! Man am I dumb (not.) Try reading the whole thing, think about it some, and then maybe we can have an intelligent discussion.

Christians get to pick and choose the versus they want to follow

@tim-
-read the bible
-have intelligent discussion

not possible

Thanks, Kevin. The whole of Western Civilization is built on it, and you say it is not possible to have an intelligent discussion about it. Makes sense.

Tim, hearing you talk about God is a laugh. You and your right wing cronies should try picking up your Bible and reading some Jesus and James. You're a pawn of satan, you don't know Jesus; if you did, you wouldn't be a right winger.

Tim, the whole of western civilization is not based on Christianity. This is just another example of you mistaking your satanic worship of America for authentic biblical values.

Sergei, take a look at your own response. It is filled with animosity towards those "right wingers". I have never been disrespectful towards anyone, but your post says volumes. How come "liberals" are so mean, hypocritical, and intolerant?

Oh, and I never said western civilization is based on Christianity, which is a very different thing. It is based on "Judeo-Christian" moral and ethical principles debated over hundreds of years, and recognizes the existence of objective truth. I would be the first to say America is not a "Christian" nation and never has been.

Tim! Man you arent getting anything right are you? America was founded as and still is (though to a lesser degree) a Christian nation. And what did those Judeo-Christian morals get us? Skepticism of both science and social progress, marginalization of women, the idea that gays are lesser people and a bunch of molested kids. None of these notions are indicative of objective truth, but rather a very subjective dogma passed down from generation to generation as received wisdom. You say western civilization is built upon christianity's foundations; I believe civilization is infected with christianity's hypocrisy.

I guess you accept everyone but "idiots?"

Kim whereas you could care less (that implies you care - you forgot the word "not") I think it is amazing that you are able to be a stay at home mom in today's society. When you say enjoy your life and do not care what others think, how are gay people (I just like to call them people and to me there is no gay marriage, it is just marriage) supposed to do that when they are treated as second class citizens?

Amend, Thank you! Good night. :)

How tolerant of you! Kudos on your narrow minded thinking!

Sergei, it is clear you don't know very much about life, let alone theology. From previous posts, you make too many leaps and assumptions, beginning with "why do you support Rich Republicans". 1) How do you know what I do and do not support? My specific political positions might surprise you; 2) the fact that you equate conservative political positions with support for the rich, it simply shows how little you understand what it is about and how shallow is your thinking. True conservative thought is nothing about the rich but is about equal opportunity for all. I believe government is the worse vehicle for making things better, and can point to the "War on Poverty". Hows that one going? Things get worse as the welfare state expands.

Only that it changes over time, based on the values of the society. What was right 1000 years ago is wrong today. What maybe right today could be wrong in 1000 years as we develop. The point is that it is subjective and not absolute, although 99.99% of all would think the execution of millions based on inferior genes is wrong, there was a group that thought it right. There is a big difference in murder (negatively affecting anothers right to live) and homosexuality as it does not interfere with anyone else besides those willingly involved. As far as unnatural... Homosexuality occurs in nature, it is a proven fact. I have a friend whose male dog will not go near another female dog but look out if your a male dog...How often do angels occur in nature?